Thank you very much for your encouraging comments. God bless you.

Amen.

Great to hear from you Bob. The bible does affirm that the church was established about 33AD, (depending how you count). The word mandatory however, is not a good word to describe membership in the church. The reason being, is that when God saves a person, He Himself ADDS them to His church. It’s not a mater of choice at that point. (see Acts 2:41 & 47) All who hear the gospel, are being offered salvation, through the knowledge of Jesus Christ. But sadly, as you know, only a small fraction of those who hear the gospel, will actually be saved. And the reason for that, is that only a small fraction of those who hear the word, are willing to obey the word. Yes, obedience IS mandatory! Hebrews 5:8-9 is definitive on the subject; “Although He were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things that He suffered; And having been made perfect, He became the author (or source) of salvation, to all those who OBEY Him.” Those people who heard Peter preach the gospel, on the day of Pentecost (apprx. 33 AD) had a choice to make. Would they believe the gospel, or not? Many of those people made the right choice, and they DID believe, and upon believing, they were “pricked in their hearts”, as the scriptures say. And they asked Peter and the other apostles; “Brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37) And Peter told them exactly what they had to do about their sin. He said in verse 38; “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” These people now had another choice to make. Would they choose to obey the words of Peter, and have their sins forgiven, or would they choose to remain in their sins, and remain lost? Well, as we see in verse 41; “So then those who received his word, WERE baptized (obviously they must have also repented as Peter had commanded) and there were ADDED that day, about 3,000 souls.” When they obeyed the “gospel”, what exactly had happened? First, they received the forgiveness of their sins, like Peter had said they would, and then, at the same moment, God added them to His church. And now we can jump down to verse 47, and see that “..the Lord was adding together, day by day, those who were being saved.” I’ll leave you with this question; Do the teachings of Catholicism agree 100% with these very plain teachings of Jesus Christ? If so, great! If not, then why not? I’ll be looking forward to your reply. May God bless you in your studies.

The Church was founded by Christ about 33A.D. depending on how you count. Membership in the Church is mandatory for all who hear the Gospel. Prior to hearing the Gospel,  men were judged by their Faith in the Good God who rewards and punishes, and by the good conduct of their lives as taught by the natural law written on the hearts of men. St. Paul speaks of all this in various places. Those who sin without repentance are damned. Those who strive truly to love God are saved. This is the same as before Christ, but obviously Heaven was only opened for the first time to the dead after Christ’s Ascension as the Catechism teaches. Before that the souls of the just were in Limbo waiting for the Redeemer.

Would you please clarify a couple of things for me, concerning your beliefs. I will assume that you believe that people were saved during the first century. And I will also assume that you would have to agree, that the manner in which those people were saved, is by obeying the commands of Jesus Himself, and of the Holy Spirit inspired word of God, revealed in the bible. There was simply no other manner of being saved, other than by obeying the words spoken by the inspired men, who then subsequently wrote those words down, and circulated those writings among the various congregations of believers. Those words, constituted the “traditions” by which men were saved, in the first century. So then, my first question to you is this; Do you believe that salvation was available, and still is available, to all people who have ever lived after the first century, in exactly the same manner in which those people were saved? And my second question is dependent on your answer to the first question. If you believe that people can no longer be saved in exactly the same manner in which they were saved in the first century, when did God’s terms of salvation change? Did they change in the second century, or the third century, or in some subsequent century? If you believe that God’s terms of salvation have NOT changed, even until this day, then it is an inescapable conclusion that NOTHING besides the new testament, is required for salvation. The new testament goes so far as to say, in 2 John, verse 9; “Anyone who goes too far, and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God! The one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.” The teachings being referred to in that verse are obviously the teachings that existed at that period of time. And those same teachings still exist today. Therefore, if our “traditions” today, differ in any way, from the teachings of Christ, which were revealed by Christ Himself, and by the inspired writers of the new testament, then those traditions are WRONG, and must be forsaken! “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching (the already revealed teaching of Christ) do not receive him into your house, and do not bid him godspeed.” 2 John , verse 10.

PS.. I’m not aware of any denominations that do not at least have their own creeds that they use, in addition to the bible, and most also have some sort of “manual of discipline”, in addition to the teaching of Christ.

It was not my intent to put words in your mouth or assume your belief. My thought to convey was that the Catholic Church is Christ centered meaning the Catholic church teaches sacred scripture is the written part of tradition, taking record of the community’s experience of God or more specifically of Jesus Christ. Thus, the Bible must be interpreted within the context of sacred tradition and within the community of the church. This goes against what MOST Protestant churches teach, which is that the Bible alone is a sufficient basis for all Christian teachings, also known as sola scriptura.

Hi Bobby. I appreciate your response and I must agree, it is shocking and very disappointing, that so much of the “religious world” holds such views which are contrary to the teaching of Christ. I agree with the words you quoted from Francis of Assisi; “Nor did demons crucify Him”. And the way I take that, is to mean that demons from another realm didn’t crucify Jesus, but rather, “demonic” men from this world crucified Him. It says in Acts 2:23; “This man, delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross, by the hands of godless men, and put Him to death.”

Concerning my invitation for you and I to study the bible; I would indeed be open to Catholic tradition as being a part of your response to me. However, we must understand that if that tradition should happen to contradict the word of God, well, I think we both know that the word of God must take precedence. I do question what you mean though, when you say that “the Catholic faith is Christ centered, and your faith is bible based”. Bible based faith IS Christ centered faith. No one would have the slightest idea of the Christ, without it having been revealed in the bible. And it is a biblical fact, that “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”. Romans 10:17. NO ONE can have even the slightest degree of faith in Jesus Christ, without the word of God providing the “means” to that faith. With that being said, what would you like to study about? You pick the subject and we’ll discuss it like respectful Christians should. Just like it says in Isaiah 1:18; “Come now, let us reason together saith the Lord.” God bless you Bobby.

Don’t misunderstand me, I did not pick up on the above being your belief. I was shocked to hear from several of my close non-Catholic friends that they adhere to this fallacy. I just thought it would be a great intro for some quality content and discussion.
I have a website under development and my plans are to offer a platform that has content designed to inspire people to live a more devout and joyful Catholic life.  I will cover a variety of topics within the Catholic faith that will be presented in a dynamic in-depth manner. This content will represent the one true Catholic faith taught by the church itself.
Concerning the Catholic view of Christ’s Passion and Atonement is that Christ offered Himself up in self-sacrificial love to the Father, obedient even unto death, for the sins of all men. In His human will He offered to God a sacrifice of love that was more pleasing to the Father than the combined sins of all men of all time are displeasing to Him, and thus made satisfaction for our sins. The Father was never angry with Christ. Nor did the Father pour out His wrath on the Son. The Passion is Christ’s greatest act of love, the greatest revelation of the heart of God, and the glory of Christ. So when Christ was on the cross, God the Father was not pouring out His wrath on His Son; in Christ’s act of self-sacrifice in loving obedience to the Father, Christ was most lovable in the eyes of the Father. Rather, in Christ’s Passion we humans poured out our enmity with God on Christ, by what we did to Him in His body and soul. And He freely chose to let us do all this to Him. Deeper still, even our present sins contributed to His suffering, because He, in solidarity with us, grieved over all the sins of the world, not just the sins of the elect. Hence, St. Francis of Assisi said, “Nor did demons crucify Him; it is you who have crucified Him and crucify Him still, when you delight in your vices and sins.” The Passion is a revelation of the love of God, not the wrath of God.
A big difference from the shocking view that I was told from close friends.
My plans are to add this above information to my site as well.
Your invite to study a particular subject does sound very interesting but, as you know, the Catholic faith is Christ centered while yours is Bible based. If you are open to Catholic Tradition being a part of my response, I am open to the invite.
God Bless you brother, Peace be with you.
Bob

Hi Bobby, and thanks for your comments and question.  In response to the suggested idea of atonement, I’ve never heard that exact scenario before.  And I absolutely do NOT hold to anything like that, because it is completely contrary to the bible.  The part about the Father hating, and cursing, and damning His son is preposterous and actually blasphemous!  Christ absolutely died for everyone, in the sense that every one is given the opportunity to be saved, if they choose to obey the terms of salvation set forth by God.  The idea of only the “elect” receiving salvation is a false teaching that must be refuted vigorously.  When the bible uses the term “the elect”, it refers to those people who chose to obey God’s commands pertaining to salvation.  when the bible uses the term “predestined”, it refers to the fact that God has predestined, and pre-ordained, that those who obey certain commands regarding salvation, will be saved.  It’s like when Jesus said in Mark 16:16;  “He who believes and is baptized, shall be saved”.   God has pre-ordained that those are two of the conditions that must be met for one to be saved.  And therefore, everyone who meets those conditions, and the other required conditions, has been “elected” to be saved.  Everyone as an individual must choose for themselves whether they will be saved or not.  God has offered salvation to everyone.  But not everyone will accept His terms of salvation. 

It is a misconception to say that a “non-Catholic” theology would require this or that way of thinking.  The only theology that matters is the theology of God and the bible.  If you believe what the bible says, it’s not a Catholic theology, but rather it is God’s theology.  My article on atonement is actually very clear as to what God requires of us to be saved. 

May we study together, the subject of what is required to be saved?  Or can we study any other subject of your choosing?  Please let me know.  May God bless you in your continued search for the truth. 

Atonement.
I have several non-Catholic friends that speak of their view of the Atonement in this manner. That in Christ’s Passion and death, God the Father poured out all of His wrath for the sins of the elect, on Christ the Son. In Christ’s Passion and death, Christ bore the punishment of the Father’s wrath that the elect deserved for their sins. In their view, this is what it means to bear the curse, to bear the Father’s wrath for sin. Christ’s Passion and death, God the Father transferred all the sins of all the elect onto His Son. Then God the Father hated, cursed and damned His Son, who was evil in the Father’s sight on account of all the sins of the elect being concentrated in the Son. In doing so, God the Father punished Christ for all the sins of the elect of all time, those sins being past, present and all in the future as well. Because the sins of the elect are now paid for, through Christ’s having already been punished for them, the elect can never be punished for any sin they might ever commit, because every sin they might ever commit has already been punished. For that reason the non-Catholic theology is required to maintain that Christ died only for the elect. Because if Christ died for everyone, this would mean salvation for everyone, since it would entail that all the sins of all people, have already been punished, and therefore cannot be punished again.
Is this a view you hold close to your vestments as well?
Seems like a long intro for such a short question.
God Bless you
Bob

I will bookmark your page and check back in a few days to see your answer and perhaps continue our conversation in you would like. ???

Hi Deedee. Thanks for visiting our website, and thanks you for your comments too. Your question is also a very good one. I’m quite sure that there are a lot of people who really don’t understand the nature of Jesus, and what His role has been. I think a good article to read would be “How is Jesus God?” But I’m going to take your idea of writing about why Jesus was the ONLY one who fill this role, and I’ll let the bible show us the answer to that question. Thanks very much for your input. I hope you will check back and view that answer. I pray that you’ll always appreciate and follow God’s word.

Thanks for your comments. I know that you have visited before, and I thank you for that. I’ve actually been studying the bible for about 33 years. It was 1983 when I realized my need for God, and was baptized for the forgiveness of my sins. That is when God added me to His church. I became the adult bible class teacher a few years later, and then did some fill-in preaching after that. Now I’ve been the full-time preacher for the congregation hear in Buffalo for the past two and a half years, and continue to conduct the adult bible class. Thanks again for visiting and for taking the time to comment. If there’s anything specific that you have a question about, I would be glad to help you find the answers in God’s word. Talk to you soon, Jim.

You do such a good job explaining the bible in your articles, I always enjoy coming back to learn more from you.

How long have you been studying the bible, I am new only about 5 years now and I am still learning everyday reading my bible and devotions

Hello Marc. Thanks very much for your comments. Is there a particular thought that you are in question of, from this article on atonement? I’d be happy to explain more about the various verses of scripture that I used in the article. Many times that’s the case, that the verse alone does require some more explanation from someone who has a bit more experience with the scriptures. That’s exactly my hope, that I can be of help in showing you some verses and explaining them to you. Please let me know how I can help you, thanks, Jim.